A mexican drug cartel runs time-share scam, part 1

(MUSIC INTRO) [00:00:00] Bob: This week on The Perfect Scam. (MUSIC SEGUE) [00:00:04] I'm not playing. [00:00:04] Well why don't you, why don't you answer my calls? I

don't care if your wife is in the hospital. To be honest with you, I don't give a damn. But you know what, if you give a damn, it's your money, and my name is written all over

it. Do you understand? [00:00:21] Yes. [00:00:22] I'm frustrated now. (MUSIC SEGUE) [00:00:29] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam. I'm your host, Bob Sullivan. A scam so

powerful, so profitable that a Mexican cartel is switching from drug sales to call centers; so dangerous that dead bodies were recently found outside one of those call centers, and so easy

that millions of Americans could be targeted in their homes from thousands of miles away all because at one point they fell in love with a vacation spot. Roughly 10 million Americans own a

timeshare. Many of them wish they didn't. Fees are high, the credits go unused, but escaping timeshare contracts can be very frustrating, much harder than consumers think. And that

frustration is an opening for these ruthless criminals. Today's special report on the cartel connection to timeshare fraud is so important, we're bringing it to you over two

episodes. As you’ll hear, for this story we had remarkable access to audio recordings of criminals in action…a rare opportunity to hear what a scam really sounds like in real time. Today we

begin with James, a veteran who thought he found a way to unload an unwanted timeshare. But instead found his way into the middle of a Mexican crime gang. You can probably understand why

James insists we only use his first name. [00:01:57] James: I worked uh in law enforcement for 33 years. And uh... [00:02:01] Bob: 33 years, wow. [00:02:02] James: Yeah, and uh, I also

served in the reserve components of the Army for about that same amount of time. Actually, uh, I was on active duty during the Vietnam era, and uh deployed to Southeast Asia with the Army,

and then when I got out of the Army, off active duty, I went into the reserve components and spent the remainder of that time with the reserve components. [00:02:29] Bob: I so admire that

you still continued to serve. Why? [00:02:32] James: It's almost a calling. Uh, my my father was uh career in the Army, Army Air Corps, and transitioned into the Air Force when the Air

Force came about, and uh, you know I just had a history that I relied on and I'm cut from very patriotic cloth, I guess you might say. [00:02:52] Bob: When James come back from

Southeast Asia, he and his wife settle on the West Coast. And after years of hard work, they go on a vacation to Lake Tahoe and well, they decide it's a place they'd love to come

back to again and again. So back in 1996, they invest in a timeshare there. [00:03:12] Bob: Love Lake Taho. It's amazing there. [00:03:13] James: Yeah. [00:03:15] Bob: So you would go

every other year or so? [00:03:17] James: Uh, we had a every, biannual or every other year membership, and we only went to that particular location once or twice during the entire time we

own, owned it, in fact, we still own it. But uh we generally used the points, I guess, or the ownership uh, and we traded and went to other locations, traveled to Mexico and uh, and so on.

[00:03:41] Bob: So what was it about the Lake Tahoe that got you, you know, involved in the first place? [00:03:47] James: Well it was one of those uh, kind of free things you go to and uh,

so we decided, yeah, we'll give it a shot. [00:03:53] Bob: Do you remember how much you spent on it? [00:03:55] James: It was about $8,900 and change. Thereabouts. [00:04:00] Bob: Well

I do remember the pitches back then very well, right, you know, 8 or 9 thousand dollars for vacations forever doesn't sound so bad at all. [00:04:07] James: There you go. Yep, that was

it. What I would consider the early days of the, the timeshare boom, you might say. (MUSIC SEGUE) [00:04:15] Bob: In fact, during the next couple of years, they buy into a couple of other

timeshares too. But even with the potential to use that Lake Tahoe right to vacation in other spots, well as the years go by, they just aren't using it, and a call from out of the blue

comes that seems to arrive at the perfect time. [00:04:34] James: Well, I got a phone call back in uh, very early October of 2022, from an individual operating a company and uh, his name was

Michael. Michael made a query to us as to uh whether or not we might be interested in purchasing a timeshare, and I advised, no, that we, we already have timeshares. We weren't

interested in purchasing anything. And uh so that's when he made the offer. He says, "Well, are you interested in getting rid--, rid of any of them?" This one at uh in the

Tahoe area being biannual was one that we had actually kind of not been using. So uh, he said, "If I could sell that for you and make a few bucks on it, would you be interested?"

And I said, "Well yeah, sure. We're not using it, so we may as well get something out of it." [00:05:24] Bob: Michael seems cheerful and competent, and well why wouldn't

they consider his offer? [00:05:30] James: It's, I'd say his voice, I would say at around 30ish. I'd say, I'd say 25 to maybe 30, no more than 35 something like that,

somewhere around in there. [00:05:45] Bob: And could you place where he was from? [00:05:48] James: Uh, no. Normally I'm pretty good about uh picking up on accents, but this was, this

was a little bit difficult to pick up on. But he was a very fast talker. Clip: [00:06:02] Michael: And my word, believe me, is as strong as it comes, you know, I mean honestly, I'm,

I'm, I'm working my hardest. I'm, I'm running that extra mile for your transaction. [00:06:13] Bob: Within a week, Michael calls back with good news. [00:06:18] James:

Says, "Hey, I've got a buyer. The buyer is a Mexican national. And uh, he's offering $22,470 for your timeshare up in Tahoe. Well, that's a little over double what we had

paid for it, so my wife and I said well, why not? We'll give it a shot. He sent the paperwork. We received a email copies of a contract from a escrow company, a commercial escrow

company actually, out of New York City. Everything looked reasonable. [00:06:52] Bob: Thrilled at their good fortune, they sign the contract and they send it back to Michael. But there is

just one hitch. [00:07:00] James: A few days later, Michael called back and advised, everything was looking good except we uh, had a fee that was attached to the transfer of the property to

the Mexican owner, and the transfer of the funds from Mexico through the escrow company and into my account. And that fee, Michael advised, was $2696, that we, that we as the sellers had to

pay in order to facilitate this cross-border transfer of funds. [00:07:46] Bob: That's a, that's a lot. That's 10% of what they were going to pay you, right? [00:07:49] James:

Right, ex--, exactly. And at that time, Michael advised that the buyer, the Mexican national was a wealthy investment type and that he would reimburse those funds. [00:08:05] Bob: So James

logs onto that New York escrow website and sees the $2,696 has already been deposited there. And so he goes ahead and pays via wire transfer for that amount. He's told the sale will go

through and he'll get his $22,000 within days, and never have to think about that timeshare and those maintenance fees again. But a few days later there is another call. [00:08:34]

James: Michael called back and advised that, "Oh, by the way, uh, there is another amount that needs to be paid in order to effect the transfer." And uh, I said, "Well, how

much is that?" And he advised $3,595 and change. And I said, "Well thing's starting to cost me." And said, "Don't worry, the buyer in Mexico is going to

reimburse your account." So uh, at that point I was a little bit concerned, obviously, but the funds showed up as being reimbursed on the escrow account from the commercial escrow

company in New York. So uh, I said, all right. [00:09:43] Bob: You, you logged into the website again and you saw that the money had been credited. [00:09:46] James: Yep. It's in,

it's in the escrow account with the, the company in New York. [00:09:53] Bob: There it is, USCommercialEscrowCorp.com. I'm looking at it right now. The website says there's an

address right on West 35th Street in New York City. There's a 646-area code, phone number at the top of the page. That's a Manhattan area code. It says, "We're

reinventing the closing process," right on top of the page. So after James logs onto his account and he sees the deposits credited to escrow, he feels comfortable making that second

payment. Again, he believes that his payment will arrive within a few days. And it will help put all this behind him. But instead, another call comes from someone new. [00:10:33] James: I

get a call from an individual identifying himself as Jesus, and he's a representative of uh, let's see if I've got his... Director of the General Finance International

Finances at Banco de Mexico. So that's the, the Head Director of Foreign Accounts, supposedly at Bank of Mexico. He calls and explains that uh there's a $16,155 fee for erase of

records insurance and notary fees... [00:11:11] Bob: Another fee? This time for $16,000? But Jesus says the same thing, make this one last payment which will be refunded and James will get

all his money. The holdup is so disappointing, but hardly the biggest thing on James mind at the time because he's recently received some very bad news. His wife is sick. She has cancer

and she must begin treatment right away. There's a lot going on at home. So James is distracted, and after he sends in another wire for the $16,000 that Jesus demanded, well then

there's another call about a cross the border registration fee for $22,000. And then there's an insurance fee for $18,000. At this point, James begins to ask questions and

doesn't pay right away. Jesus does not like that. In this clip of a phone call recorded by James and supplied to The Perfect Scam, Jesus is asking for a total of $78,000 to be paid

immediately. Clip: [00:12:21] James: Yeah, I, I was uh, I've had some, my wife's had some issues going on. I'm, I'm with her right now. Uh... [00:12:30] Jesus: I just, I

feel you're ignoring my calls. [00:12:33] James: Yesterday I, I had some issues with my phone, and today I'm at the doctor's office with my wife. [00:12:40] Jesus: I'm

going to be blunt with you, okay? I've done nothing, I've done nothing but protect and gain capital for you. I feel that you're not valuing my efforts in a sort of way, and

the day before yesterday and yesterday I've been trying to reach you because we had a deadline for the 78. I needed a verbal explanation and a verbal uh legal intent on your end.

[00:13:06] Bob: Weeks go by and the calls keep coming from Michael and Jesus. Eventually James pays the outstanding fees, and again, he's told the refund and his $22,000 payment will

arrive almost immediately after he pays the fees. But then there's another snafu having to do with the Mexican government. James can see the balance at that escrow website growing, but

James' wife isn't so sure about the whole thing. [00:13:34] James: She knows when these funds are, are going out, and by about the uh second set of funds that go out, she says,

"I don't want any part of this." So she, she's like, you know, we're done. And it was me, I made the decision to continue with this based primarily on the fact that

this Commercial Escrow Company out of New York City had the funds, the escrow accounts got my wife and my name on it, and everything looks up and up on that particular account. So I'm

relying on the fact that we've got the, the uh seller representative, Michael, representing me, supposedly, we have a, a escrow company out of New York City and then we have the Bank of

Mexico representative involved, and my thoughts were that this escrow company looks legit online. [00:14:35] Bob: But for the next few months about every two weeks or so instead of getting

a check, James gets another phone call about another delay. Here's Michael telling James he's also frustrated by the holdup. Clip: [00:14:49] Michael: I don't know how your

operation was, but it's definitely going to get better. [00:14:53] James: Uh yeah. But uh, yeah, right, right now... [00:14:55] Michael: And that's the goal, that’s the goal here,

okay? That’s the goal here. Believe me I want, I want to feel secure, I want you to feel secure. I, I, I want to feel happy getting home from work, you know, and at least knowing that

we're able to do something positive and, and achieve something, but hey, every day, I, I don't even want to go straight home, I'll tell, I'll tell you the truth. I spend

hours you know, you know driving around sometimes, sometimes I go to the lake, you know sometimes I, I got to conventions just to kill time, you know. My wife, she, she's always

questioning me, hey, what time you coming home? Hey, why are you getting out this late? You know I, I just feel so stressed out you know. Things aren't the same with my family.

[00:15:39] James: Okay, well I'll, uh... [00:15:41] Michael: But I'm trying my best, James. [00:15:43] Bob: Jesus on the other hand is much pushier. Here he is demanding a large

payment from James, chastising him for missing deadlines. Clip: [00:15:54] James: I'll see what I can come up with to, it's still, is it 70--- is the amount 78,000 or did it go

back ... [00:16:03] Jesus: That no longer, that, forget about that. That no longer applies. I kept calling you yesterday, before yesterday. I told you, it's the full amount. I'm

sorry. [00:16:13] James: All right. I'll see what I can come up with. [00:16:16] Jesus: Well I need you to check in and let me know Monday morning if I'm going to close the account

or if I'm going to send you to security deposit account where you deposit your security deposit in the United States that week. [00:16:29] James: Okay. I'll, I'll, I think

Michael mentioned something about that in the phone call that I had with him too. It was about... [00:16:36] Jesus: Don't forget, and I hate the fact that you forget. I hate it.

Don't forget there's timeframes. Then all of a sudden, Jesus call you and there’s a bad news. Well, stop breaching the, stop breaching the deadlines. But anyways, who am I to

convince you, right? [00:16:56] Bob: James is frustrated, distracted, and worried sick about his wife. And Michael increasingly offer empathy. He even offers to help persuade James'

wife that everything will work out if James just makes one more payment. Clip: [00:17:14] Michael: Look, I'm on your side. So if she, if she's going to upset on me, she's

going to yell at me, she's not going to believe me, but look, I understand, but I'm still going to make sure that I can do everything I can on your, on both of your behalves, okay?

I'm going to make sure that you and her can be, having your lives back to normal, and that you know, before this is, before this all started. [00:17:37] James: Well, I'll see what

I can do. [00:17:40] Bob: The escrow account now shows James has hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in this transaction, but he still hasn't received a dime. When James tells

Michael he's losing sleep over that, Michael says... Clip: [00:17:54] James: Oh man. [00:17:56] Michael: I, I can hardly get any sleep, James. I can hardly get any sleep, believe me,

I'm trying my best. I'm trying my best. I'm not giving up on you. I, I'm making sure that you can get all your funds and hey, I, I promise our situa--, both of our

situations are going to change, and hey, look, if, if I, if we can resolve this this month before the month ends, I promise that, you know, I'll catch you, I'll book a flight.

I'll have my wife meet up with you and your wife, you know and I, I want my wife to speak to your wife in the way their points of views, you know, and conversate in front of us, you

know what, what they thought... [00:18:29] Bob: And then Michael tells James, he's going to do something drastic. He's going to Mexico himself to fix things. [00:18:37] James: Late

last year, Michael advised that he was going to go to Mexico and meet with Jesus to get all of this straightened out. He called from Mexico advising me that he ended up having to pay some

penalties and the like, significant amount out of his own pocket because they thought he was involved in some supposedly a money laundering scam thing that uh, I, I and he were involved in.

[00:19:10] Bob: But that trip, Michael says, does the trick. James' timeshare sale is finally going through and the payment is on the way. [00:19:19] Bob: And did you feel a sense of

relief when they said, hey, money's finally coming? [00:19:24] James: Absolutely. You bet. Yeah, I figured, hey, this whole thing's over. We're going to be getting the funds,

and now I'm going to just be waiting for the UPS to deliver the documents to transfer the property to the Mexican buyer. But we waited about a week. I checked the escrow account, and

the funds are back in the escrow account and they are not in my account. [00:19:50] Bob: But the money doesn't come. Instead, there are more fees. James' frustration mounts.

He's got no good options. If he decides to drop the whole thing and cut his losses, well, Michael and Jesus tell him that will cost $400,000, and the process could take months. Clip:

[00:20:09] James: If there was some way, any funds could be delivered to my account regarding this, anything, it could be delivered, you know a, a deposit into my account somehow or other,

and my wife saw money come in from this, this thing, from your company or if you know, something. 'Cause right now nothing has ever come in. You know. [00:20:34] Michael: I know, I

know. Yeah, yeah, and even I'm conscious of that, I'm conscious very much about that. But that's what I want to change, and again I, we're, we're in the situation

where look, I've, they've told me in the past, hey, this was it, we paid or, or you paid it, we processed it, I, I was informed of it occurring, and what happened? Hey, this came

up. And then what happened? You paid it again, you got it reimbursed, went into the account, we move forward, same thing. So I understand, we're in the situation right now that maybe

you don't even believe my word, but hey, this is all I have here, James, and my word, believe me is as strong as it comes. You know I, and honestly, I'm, I'm, I'm working

my hardest. I'm, I'm, I'm running that extra mile for your transaction, you know I'm not giving up so easy because other brokers, I can guarantee, this is so stressful

and I, I do have a job so difficult where it's stressful enough with situations like this, and I, I don't, I, I just can't give up, you know. I just can't give up.

[00:21:37] James: All right. [00:21:38] Michael: It's the total opposite. But I'll speak to you tomorrow. [00:21:42] Bob: But it seems tomorrow never comes. Instead the owner of

the timeshare transaction company, a man named Bruce, now gets involved, involved to the extent that he ends up trapped in Mexico. [00:21:56] James: That would have been in probably January,

late, late January. The owner went to Mexico and, and uh after Michael went to, went there. Michael came back after having supposedly paid $72,000 or so dollars to get him, to allow himself

to be uh to get back to the United States because of some inconsistencies or inappropriate payments that they had made on my behalf supposedly to get these funds clear. Both him and Bruce

were involved in a similar situation like that. Bruce kept calling from Mexico through the month of December, when he was down there, saying that I had to, in order to get those funds

released and to, in order to get him able to travel back to the United States, there was a fee of $156,000 that had to be paid. [00:22:51] Bob: He wanted you to pay $150,000 so he could come

home. [00:22:54] James: Right, and that, and that would clear up everything. [00:23:00] Bob: But James, at this point is really having some doubts, and he doesn't know what to do.

[00:23:06] James: That's when I just, you know I, number one, I didn't have the money. You know, I'd a had to take a mortgage out on my house, or second mortgage out on my

house in order to come up with those kind of funds. But at this, at that point, both Michael and Bruce were begging me to do that. Michael was the guy, oh no, figure out a way to do it

without putting a mortgage on your house. I don't want, I don't want you to do that. He's, he's my guy, remember, he's now put himself in his, he's representing

me. He's doing everything watching out for me. [00:23:41] Bob: James doesn't take out a second mortgage on his home, but what he does do is a lot more reading. [00:23:48] James:

And at that, at that point, it finally got to the point where I started doing my research with the domain names and what have you and discovered that the domain name of the timeshare resale

company didn't match up. The emails that I had used had changed slightly. I could still get in touch with them with emails, but uh, their add-, their address had changed just a bit.

[00:24:17] Bob: The discrepancies are enough to make James tell Michael he's not paying this time. [00:24:22] Bob: When you said no to Michael, what happened? [00:24:24] James: At that

point, he says, "Please, I'm begging, I'm begging you. Help, help, if you can come up with those funds." I'd throw him a line, I says, "Hey, you know, I'll

see what I can do but right now, I don't have the money, and, and I'm not going to take out a second mortgage on my house." That, that went on for a bit. But uh, Bruce also

called me from Mexico, had a Mexican phone number, begging me the same thing so that he could get back home, and Bruce, at this point, was uh, he's the owner of the company supposedly,

and he, he said that he would gladly pay me out of his company funds if I could pay this 157 or so thousand, that was required in order to facilitate the conclusion of this supposed

transaction which would allow, also allow him to come back to the United States. Because he was supposedly being held under uh house arrest, so to speak, on some charge in Mexico. [00:25:22]

Bob: Wow. [00:25:23] Bob: Jesus, meanwhile, well he's not as polite about things. In fact, he begins to engage in outright badgering, threatening James. Clip: [00:25:32] Jesus: You

could get the best lawyers you want; you could get whatever you want, and this is not a threat, this is facts. I am the Head Director of Foreign Accounts and dealing with Miss Maria

Hernandez at Bank of Mexico. The Finance Intelligence Unit is my job. My name is protected because of the fact that the Mexican cartels threaten our lives on a daily base because we closed

their accounts. We, we seized their, their money. We hit where it hurts. Now you, you're going to tell me that everything I'm doing, there's no value for it? You're not

valuing my efforts? [00:26:15] Bob: Even to the point of flat-out heartlessness. Clip: [00:26:19] James: I'm not saying that. I'm not saying... [00:26:21] Jesus: Well why

don't you, why don't you answer my calls? I don't care if your wife is in the hospital. To be honest with you, I don't give a damn. But you know what, if you give a damn,

it's your money and my name is written all over it. Do you understand? [00:26:36] James: Yes. [00:26:37] Jesus: It's, I'm frustrated now 'cause it’s like every

department’s on my ass saying hey, what's going on? But the conversion is going up, the conversion is going down. The Mexican peso dollar is the value is up and it goes down, and

that's why I gotta tell you, you've got to pay the other expense because the dollar went down, or you've got to pay to spend because the dollar went up. Do you understand?

[00:26:59] James: I'm beginning to, yes. [00:27:01] Jesus: Well, begin to, please. [00:27:04] James: I'm don't think I... [00:27:04] Jesus: This is not a game. [00:27:06] Bob:

No, it's not a game. That escrow website now shows James has spent nearly $900,000 towards these transactions. He's basically out of money and you might say, he follows

Jesus's advice. He decides to contact a lawyer. That lawyer is Mike Finn who has a law practice which deals almost entirely with getting people out of timeshare commitments. [00:27:35]

Mike Finn: I don't know. James contacted our office; I didn't take the initial call. It came in through our intake and they were confused about what James was calling about.

[00:27:46] Bob: But Mike isn't confused. He knows what's going on right away. He gets calls from timeshare sale fraud victims every week. James is one of hundreds, probably

thousands of timeshare owners who've been caught up in an incredibly complex and efficient scam. [00:28:06] Mike Finn: Oh my goodness, it's, it's horrible, it's

absolutely horrible. James, over a period of time, sent wire transfers to a place that maybe now can't be traced, the wire transfers totaling close to $900,000 for a timeshare sales

price of somewhere in the market of $33,000. [00:28:33] Bob: Mike Finn tells James to stop talking to Jesus and Bruce and Michael, to end all connection with the escrow company, with all of

it. James doesn't know what to do. He just wants a lawyer's help to get his money back. And at this point, he has no idea what he's gotten himself in the middle of. But Steve

Fisher knows. He's an investigative journalist based in Mexico City. He moved years ago from Pennsylvania to Mexico to investigate organized crime, a very dangerous job. And at about

the same time James is talking with this lawyer, Steve is independently working on a long story about all these timeshare frauds for USA Today. What’s behind this rash of cases that people

Mike Finn are seeing…and the truth is so much darker than Mike or James can imagine. Here’s what Steve learns as he is reporting on his story. We often imagine scam criminals sitting in

dark, smoke-filled basement room, working by themselves or in small groups, desperately scrambling to steal a few dollars here and there. Well, timeshare scams kind of used to work like

that. Until…. [00:29:50] Steve Fisher: And then in 2010, something very important happened. An individual who had very close ties to the Jalisco Cartel, the new generation Jalisco Cartel,

one of those violent cartels in Mexico, if not in the world, said, this individual who knew the cartel said, "Look, there's this incredible business where you can make

extraordinary amounts of money with very little overhead. And it's this scam. And there's a number of call centers in Puerto Vallarta that you can take over." And uh, and

he's like, "And I'll teach you how to do this." And so this violent cartel basically took over call centers either forcing people to work for them or threatening them uh

until they uh, you know, agreed to work with them. Of course, like I said, forcing them to work with them, and, and the Jalisco cartel took over this business in Puerto Vallarta in 2010 and

began to perfect it to a level uh, of incredible sophistication. And so, according to the US Government, they're now making hundreds of millions of dollars but all, it all started them

taking over little mom-and-pop call centers back in 2010. [00:31:05] Bob: So is, is this what I imagine in my head? There's a small boiler room and gang members just bust in one day

with uh, obvious weapons on them and say, you're working for us now. Is that how it works? [00:31:15] Steve Fisher: Yeah, I can't speak particularly to the boiler room part, but

that's what it was. It was just people, mom-and-pop sort of businesses, um, doing their own thing, you know, and uh like I said, fugitives of the law and, and ex-pats, um, scamming

senior citizens on their own. And what the Jalisco cartel did was just take it, uh, formalize it all, and create enormous streams of income for the cartel.  [00:31:44] Bob: So Steve

doesn't know James, but he’s interviewed other victims, and he knows the scam very well. People like Jesus and Michael and Bruce, they aren't representing a timeshare buyer, they

don't work for a financial company, they work for what’s known as the Jalisco New Generation Cartel, and stealing money from American timeshare owners is big business for the violent

gang. Such big business that the cartel has dramatically shifted business models in recent years. [00:32:16] Steve Fisher: Well the return on investment, Bob, is, is actually according to US

Government officials, better than drug trafficking because if you think about it, you know let's say the Jalisco cartel is getting a shipment of cocaine from Columbia and needs to get

it all the way into the United States. The amount of investment along that route to bribe officials, basically just defend that shipment from its origins to the United States is an

extraordinary amount of, of investment. It requires a lot of logistics, a lot of people to get that shipment to its destination. [00:32:53] Bob: So instead of working with street dealers and

bribery and secret shipping arrangements, the cartel hires office workers who fill up call centers that target US timeshare owners looking to unload their vacation homes. [00:33:09] Steve

Fisher: When you're talking about these call center scam centers, you have a few people that make some phone calls convince people to give their money, you know, to the cartel which of

course they don't mention that it's a cartel, I mean, you, it's basically creating a few front companies, shell companies, LLCs, if you will. And that's pretty much the

extent of their investment. They pay, uh US Government officials told me that they pay, you know, low level call center employees about $700 a month, and then the top tier closing group, as

they call them, you know they get a percentage of the cut of the, of the scam that they um, that they, they're a part of. So the investment is far less than getting a kilo of cocaine

into the United States and the risk is infinitely lower. [00:34:03] Bob: The men James has been talking to work in a very dangerous business. [00:34:09] Steve Fisher: So if anyone uh cared

to uh go up against the Jalisco cartel, you know, they, they would quickly come up against semiautomatic weapons, 50-caliber machine guns and, and perhaps think twice about confronting them.

[00:34:23] Bob: And, and in fact there were uh several bodies found outside a call center not very long ago, right? [00:34:27] Steve Fisher: Yeah, that's right. And officials

aren't totally certain what happened or why, but it's their, some theories are that these call center employees perhaps were staging a revolt, trying to leave their jobs, and the

cartel and just very quickly, easily, and efficiently made an example of them by leaving their body parts in 48 bags outside of the city. You know, again, it's always difficult to

determine what happens in a, crimes are difficult, it's hard to get to the bottom of a, of a crime in Mexico, and certainly with this one that is the case. But the theories kind of

align with how the Jalisco cartel functions in general. They're good at making high profile, gruesome examples of those who would defy them. [00:35:14] Bob: Gruesome examples of those

who would defy them. That's chilling. But James doesn't know any of this at the moment, and he's not sure what to believe. A lawyer wants him to cut off Jesus and Michael, all

of them, but James isn't ready to that yet. He's still holding out hope that he can get his money out of that escrow company. Right then Mike is contacted by New York Times

reporter Maria Abi Habib who, like Steve Fisher, is looking into the timeshare scam Mexican drug cartel connection. Maria, calling from Mexico, asks this timeshare lawyer for help finding

victims of a timeshare scam. That's how Maria connects with James. She interviews James for her story and podcast, and even after she interviews him... [00:36:01] Bob: When I listened

to the New York Times version of your story, the reporter there seemed to suggest that when she first spoke to you, you, you weren't completely convinced that this was a fraud.

[00:36:14] James: At that point, correct. And primarily because, because of this escrow account that I still had. The escrow account still reflects that there's money in my supposed

account there. [00:36:28] Bob: What happens to James’ $900,000? How did a dangerous, very dangerous Mexican drug cartel end up so deeply involved in the US timeshare industry? And what can

timeshare owners do to protect themselves when trying to get out from under a timeshare deal? Well that's next week on The Perfect Scam. For The Perfect Scam, I'm Bob Sullivan.

(MUSIC SEGUE) [00:37:00] Bob: If you have been targeted by a scam or fraud, you are not alone. Call the AARP Fraud Watch Network Helpline at 877-908-3360. Their trained fraud specialists can

provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next. Our email address at The Perfect Scam is: [email protected], and we want to hear from you. If you've been

the victim of a scam or you know someone who has, and you'd like us to tell their story, write to us. That address again is: [email protected]. Thank you to our team of

scambusters; Associate Producer, Annalea Embree; Researcher, Becky Dodson; Executive Producer, Julie Getz; and our Audio Engineer and Sound Designer, Julio Gonzalez. Be sure to find us on

Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For AARP's The Perfect Scam, I'm Bob Sullivan. (MUSIC OUTRO) _END OF TRANSCRIPT_